Truthoughts

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  • January 2010
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More on the OSAS teaching…

Posted by truthoughts on January 9, 2010

These videos are showing Biblical scriptures that go more in depth against the OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) teaching. Please watch.

Part I


Part II

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14 Responses to “More on the OSAS teaching…”

  1. Burning Lamp said

    Critics of eternal security of the believer simply don’t understand the difference between a false profession and a genuine conversion. Also, they underestimate the power of God to preserve who He saves. We didn’t earn our salvation and we don’t earn the right to keep it. Saying that we have to do works to maintain our salvation is to defeat the original concept of salvation as a free gift of God into works salvation.

    When a genuine conversion takes place, the Holy Spirit puts His seal upon the individual. That is a permanent transaction that can’t be reversed. God chastens those who are His. If one sins freely without coming under the discipline of the hand of God, that is a sure sign that one has not made a valid profession and acceptance of Christ as Savior.

    Too many Christians who are genuine believers stumble when the enemy accuses them and defeats them when they err instead of approaching the Father and confessing their sin. Then many drop into a black hole, doubting their salvation and become discouraged.

    Grace is not a license to sin and God’s grace is not to be abused. But God’s grace extends far beyond anything the human mind can imagine.

  2. Burning Lamp said

    One additional comment:

    When we are saved, we become adopted children of God. Adoption was considered highly in Bible times and an adopted child could not be disinherited, while a natural child could. The Bible is full of assurances for the true believer that God will never leave or forsake them.

    We should want to serve God out of love and gratutude instead of being anxious about that imaginary line we might cross that is a point of no return and a ticket to hell. Perfect love casts out fear.

    The true believer will come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and God will chasten because He loves His child just as an earthly parent who loves their child will discipline them. Earthly parents don’t disown their children simply because they disobey. Neither does our wonderful heavenly Father.

    • truthoughts said

      The adoption law you are referring to is a current one and I agree. However, you are describing a “true” christian as I agree with as well and so does this gentleman. The difference here is using salvation as a license to sin… now, is that a “true” christian? You are correct saying that the Holy Spirit will convict us when we sin but it is our choice then to turn from that sin and repent for it. Otherwise, we continue in our sin willfully and go against God’s Word and His Holy Spirit. Remember that we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit and we do this by resisting Him and willingly disobeying His promptings. I will refer you to my response to Tom’s comment for more details as well as my post on Once Saved Always Saved.

      Thank you for your comment. =)

  3. Hi truthoughts. Research “justification” and “sanctification”. Unfortunately, the young guy while sincere and energetic, is confusing the two. He’s basically preaching a type of salvation by works. In a nutshell, you are saved by faith alone (justification, born again, etc). There’s nothing that you can do to earn or keep your faith. This might “blow your mind” (I know it did mine when I first heard it) but check out the book of Galatians, for example–that’s what it’s all about! As a result of this faith, good works result (sanctification). Faith resulting in salvation is one thing, sanctification is related but a completely different thing: Faith is a one time event that gives you salvation. Works give you fellowship with God.

    In case you didn’t know, the issue of justification and sanctification is the #1 reason God pulled us out of the Catholic church 500 years ago. But when you hear a guy like this preach, you think us evangelicals want to go back! No wonder the ecumenical movement is so popular…

    • truthoughts said

      I appreciate your comment and I will refer you to my response to Tom. One thing in particular I must say regarding what you said is that works doesn’t give us fellowship with God, salvation does otherwise as you said, the Catholics would be right. Their beliefs are not what this man is talking about. Catholics believe that you can go through others to get to God as well as pay your way through. Their ‘salvation’ is strictly upon works without faith.

      Thank you for your comment. =)

      • Uriel A said

        Perhaps I didn’t explain myself correctly—sin breaks fellowship with God. Note that “being saved” doesn’t automatically mean “fellowship with God.” The example is the Parable of the Prodigal Son. He was a son, no matter what. (No where does his father disown him.) Yet his sin caused him to lose fellowship with his father. In the same way, justification = “born again” = we become sons of God. We never lose that—God never disowns us, no matter what we do. However, sanctification allows us to enjoy fellowship with Jesus. While sanctification is related to justification, they are different.

        Also, the parable of the prodigal son also describes the eternal “adoption” that @Burning Lamp@ mentions. When we are “born again,” God adopts us as sons *forever*. However, that doesn’t mean that we don’t do things that break our fellowship with Him. Also, don’t confuse this as a license to sin. That’s not what we are talking about it either.

        As yes, that’s exactly the point—the guy in the video is preaching a form of salvation by works. He says that we have to “work” to stay saved. Jesus says all we have to do is believe. This is the whole point! Works come as a result of this faith but they never are a requirement to “stay saved.” Otherwise, it would no longer be grace! Grace is unearned and unmerited. Don’t redefine it to be something else…

    • Tom said

      I would say the issue is more that people always want to have a hand in their own salvation. That is why virtually every other religion on earth is works based.

      I wish people would understand that faith plus works is in no way justification by faith alone, which the Reformers taught!

  4. Tom said

    He needs to clean up his presentation. He, several times, contradicts himself in the same sentence.

    Faith does accompany works, but our works don’t save, or keep us saved. The Greek for “dead” in James 2:20 carries the idea of useless. It doesn’t mean that it’s not there, nor saving.

    I love how, in his whole presentation, he left out Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30, in light of saying that, yes, initially believing in Christ is enough for salvation, but if we don’t stop sinning or do good things, even if we genuinely trusted in Christ, we can’t go to heaven.

    In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, … And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    Indeed, the Holy Spirit will change the heart and mind of a person upon salvation. That doesn’t mean that we won’t stop sinning nor does it mean that we won’t be tempted to sin. Further, it doesn’t mean that someone that has genuinely trusted in Christ won’t ignore the Spirit’s conviction of sin. After all, we still have free will.

    Above, I quoted Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. These verses say that the Holy Spirit has sealed those who have trusted in Christ are sealed by the Spirit until the day of redemption. Notice it doesn’t say until we sin or anything else. We’re sealed until the day of redemption, or, when Christ comes for us.

    This means that, when someone truly trusts Christ, the Spirit seals them. Ideally, the person will strive for Christ-likeness. But, inevitably that person is going to sin and despite this the seal isn’t broken. Even if that person dies having not repented of that sin, it’s not broken. If that person’s seal was broken, God ends up being a liar as he didn’t keep us until he said that he would.

    The general rule is that, humanly speaking, we are able to judge the authenticity, humanly speaking, of someone’s salvation by their works and we should all be striving to be like Christ. God though, judges the heart and he knows who truly has trusted in his son.

    • truthoughts said

      Please be more specific as to where exactly he contradicted himself so I and others can research that. Also about sinning… he is speaking more of willfully sinning rather then just messing up here and there. There is a huge difference with regard to that of course.

      When you speak of the seal of God, that could get into the predestined topic which is a great one but much to in depth for the comment section. I hesitate covering that one because it is such a hot button for many as is this.

      Tell me… what do you believe Jesus means when He speaks of blotting names out of the Book of Life in Revelation (speaking to churches)? What about removing their candlestick if they do not repent? If we believe that God seals us to cover future sins then He must do it for all… including if we deny Him later as Peter did. This of course is not true which is why Jesus referred to him as his previous name he had rather then the new name Christ gave him, when he did this. I cover this in my post Once Saved Always Saved.

      We could fall back on the idea that those may not have been truly saved to begin with however, Christ even calls them part of the church in Revelation and gives a parable of the seeds (word) that goes pretty far… in that, though some may start off well… as saved by believing, they end up falling away in the end.

      Just some thoughts. Thanks so much for commenting. =)

      • Tom said

        Please be more specific as to where exactly he contradicted himself so I and others can research that.

        If I’m remembering right, there were some parts right at the beginning of part 2 where in the same sentence, he would say, “We are saved by faith,” then a few words later, “we have to do good to get to heaven, faith isn’t enough,” or something of that sort.

        he is speaking more of willfully sinning rather then just messing up here and there. There is a huge difference with regard to that of course.

        I agree with you that there is a huge difference between willfully sinning and stumbling. But, as I remember from watching the video the other night, I came away with the impression that he was saying that we’re not to sin at all, and be holy and perfect.

        When you speak of the seal of God, that could get into the predestined topic which is a great one but much to in depth for the comment section. I hesitate covering that one because it is such a hot button for many as is this.

        I don’t think the “sealed by God” gets much, if at all, into predestination. Yes, Ephesians 1:11 says “predestined”. That’s not really a moot issue though when Ephesians 1:13 says that when we believe we’re sealed until the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30)with the Holy Spirit being our guarantee until we gain possession of our inheritance(Ephesians 1:14)

        what do you believe Jesus means when He speaks of blotting names out of the Book of Life in Revelation (speaking to churches)?

        Just as it says. Those that overcome will not have their name removed from the book of life. The verse doesn’t say that those that don’t overcome lose their salvation. That’s an assumption. Rather, it would seem that, coupled with the over comers from the Sardisian church being clothed in white, it’s a promise made by Jesus that these believers would have assurance and that they’d be honored greatly in eternity.

        What about removing their candlestick if they do not repent?

        Easy. If the problems that the Ephesian church had weren’t repented of, they would cease to be a church. They’re light wouldn’t shine anymore. Considering that they still had their light, though they hadn’t repented, makes it hard to say that someone can lose their salvation. This had nothing to do with individual believers.

        If we believe that God seals us to cover future sins then He must do it for all… including if we deny Him later as Peter did.

        Which he would. Any true believer in Christ would be sealed until the day of Redemption, just like it’s promised in Ephesians. If that seal is broken, we, and God, have a huge problem on our hands.

        This of course is not true which is why Jesus referred to him as his previous name he had rather then the new name Christ gave him, when he did this.

        I think that’s a bit of a stretch. Someone being called by another name in no way can indicate loss of salvation, especially when it’s theirs! Assuming such, we would have to assume silly things like, Peter wasn’t saved when he decided to call himself Simeon in 2 Peter 1:1.

        At the end of the day, when we’re saved, we’re sealed as well and that seal isn’t broken. It simply can’t be God’s name is on the line. Remember too, that when Christ died, all of our sins where yet future and there is no Scripture that says our sins are only paid for up to the point of salvation. Christ paid it all.

        If you have the spare cash laying around, you should pick up the book Getting the Gospel Right: A Balanced View of Salvation Truth by C. Gordon Olson [ISBN 0-9624850-6-3]. The main thrust of the book is about the Mediate soteriological position (as opposed to Calvinism and Arminianism). But, there are several chapters in it about believers and eternal security that are good. He explained things in ways that I’d never heard or thought of before!

        Shalom!

      • You mean Rev 3:5? “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of life…”

        If so, then you are reading more into this than it says. You are reading it as a threat, “If you don’t overcome, then I’ll blot out your name…”

        However, that’s really not what it says. When you take a look at the Greek, this verse is stating a “timeless truth”—it’s a verse of encouragement announcing a wonderful promise! (I’m not a Greek expert by the way. I’m paraphrasing the wonderful book, “Eternal Security” by Lloyd Olson.) It’s not a threat.

        Remember, Jesus also gives us this wonderful promise, “Whoever believes in Jesus overcomes the world.” (1 Jo 5:4-5).

  5. truthoughts said

    I want to thank you all for your comments and points. I do want to dialog more on this topic but it is late right now, so I will have to come back to do so. I apologize for taking a bit to approve your comments, I haven’t been on. I have to set it to be approved because of all the spam I get and some is not G rated. Thanks for your understanding. =)

    ~Alison

  6. Uriel A said

    Thanks for the excellent summary @Tom@. @Alison@, Tom is saying what I’m saying (and more) in different words. For example, when I said the video preaches a form of salvation by works, Tom pointed it out… “Saved by faith but we have to do good to get to heaven, faith isn’t enough…” That’s a form of salvation by works. It’s also a redefinition of grace. “Grace “that you work to keep isn’t grace…

    Unfortunately, as much as the guy in the video seems sincere and passionate, he isn’t doing a favor to us Christians. He’s putting us under the same bondage the Galatians fell into…

    Sorry to hear your website is swamped with spam. Isn’t WordPress good at catching spam???

    • truthoughts said

      Thanks for the post/clarification.

      WordPress is pretty good but some things still get through. The spammers get crafty in spite of me adding things to block out. Anyway, its the only way I can make sure the bad stuff doesn’t get through. =)

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